Overweight, hungry, diabetic, and fat-free

Let me tell you about my low-fat experience from 20 years ago.

At the time, I was living in Cleveland, Ohio, and served on the faculty at a large metropolitan university-affiliated hospital, supervising fellows-in-training and developing high-tech cath lab procedures like directional athererectomy and excimer laser coronary angioplasty. (Yes, another life.)

I was concerned about personal heart disease risk, though I knew next to nothing about lipids and coronary risk prediction outside of the little I learned in training and what the drug industry promoted.

I heard Dr. Dean Ornish talk while attending the American College of Cardiology meetings in Atlanta. Dr. Ornish spoke persuasively about the dangers of fat in the diet and how he "reversed" coronary disease using a low-fat, no added oils, no meat, vegetarian diet that included plenty of whole grains. So I thought I'd give it a try.

I eliminated all oils; I removed all meat, eggs, and fish from my diet. I shunned all nuts. I ate only low-fat products like low-fat yogurt and cottage cheese; and focused on vegetables, fruit, and whole grains. Beans and brown or wild rice were a frequent staple. I loved oatmeal cookies--low-fat, of course!

After one year of this low-fat program, I had gained a total of 31 lbs, going from 155 lbs to 186 lbs. I reassessed some basic labs:

HDL 28 mg/dl
Triglycerides 336 mg/dl
Blood sugar 151 mg/dl (fasting)

I became a diabetic. All through this time, I was also jogging. I ran on the beautiful paths along the Chagrin River in suburban Cleveland for miles north and south. I ran 5 miles per day most days of the week.

It was diabetes that hit me alongside the head: I was eating low-fat meticulously, exercising more than 90% of the population, yet I got fat and diabetic!

I have since changed course in diet. Last time I checked, my lipid values on NO statin agent:

HDL 67 mg/dl
Triglycerides 57 mg/dl
Blood sugar 91 mg/dl

That was my lesson that fat restriction is a destructive, misguided notion. The data since then have confirmed that restricting total fat is unnecessary, even undesirable, when fat calories are replaced by carbohydrate calories.

Comments (52) -

  • dave schy

    12/15/2009 1:55:11 PM |

    Not sure exactly what you were eating. As a chef for the last 30 years here is what I eat now.
    Maybe worth taking a look.


  • Peter

    12/15/2009 2:02:55 PM |

    I've read that Ornish scored zero on the heart scan.  As long as we're speculating about anecdotal evidence, I have to wonder if that's because of his stance against sugar and flour.

  • Christian

    12/15/2009 2:21:42 PM |

    But obviously Dean Ornish's program seems to work in order to reverse heart desease. Of course it consists of more than just a change in your diet, so my question is: Do you think that if Dean Ornish would apply a diet that is high in fat and low in CHO - in addition to his stress management program and exercise and so on - it would work to  heart desease?

  • Vivian

    12/15/2009 3:52:04 PM |

    Ditto this.  Exactly.

  • Anonymous

    12/15/2009 4:13:03 PM |

    Huh? For a minute, I thought you were writing about my exact experience. Yup, I was a vegetarian all my life until a year ago. Followed Dean Ornish's advice and saw my glucose and lipids behave exactly like yours. In the last one year, I have started eating eggs, fish and fat (butter, olive oil) and my blood sugar is normal and lipids are 110 total and 66 LDL. However, I am on statins and my doctor doesn't want to take me off of it yet. I wish my HDL was as high as yours but it's hovering around 35 and 40.

    I keep wondering how many people's health is affected by all the quackery that goes in the name of medical research and science.

  • JPB

    12/15/2009 4:18:42 PM |

    Oh yes, I can relate to that.  I followed my then doctor's advice on diet (yes, it was low-fat, high carb).  In a year, I gained 12 pounds effortlessly and 50 points total cholesterol plus my blood glucose was inching up....
    When is the truth about low-fat going to come out?  There seem to be too many well-entrenched powers out there!!

  • DrStrange

    12/15/2009 4:35:37 PM |

    "I ate only low-fat products like low-fat yogurt and cottage cheese..."

    I would love to know actual percentage of calories from fat in the diet.  "Low-fat" dairy can really add to quite a bit!  I know that Ornish now has a "spectrum" of diets depending on how healthy you want to be, to coax people on board, but his original diet (and his sort of ultimate one on the spectrum) is around 10% total fat calories.  Many or most who use the term "low-fat" really mean closer to 20% or even 30% calories from fat....

  • Anonymous

    12/15/2009 5:11:24 PM |

    so how does your diet look now? great results after you switched!

  • Peter

    12/15/2009 5:27:50 PM |

    If it were the case that a low fat/high carb diet causes obesity and diabetes in most people, the Japanese would be fat and diabetic, but they have far less obesity and diabetes than we do.  Probably other factors besides the ratio of fats and carbs are more decisive in determining who gets sick and who doesn't.

  • Anonymous

    12/15/2009 7:05:28 PM |

    Thanks for sharing your personal experience Dr. Davis.  Very interesting.

  • Chloe

    12/15/2009 9:18:00 PM |

    My theory confirmed.  Once the "community standard of care" or even the experts in traditional medicine fail in treating a doctor-patient's concerns and that doctor-patient has to self-treat then we lay folks get the benefit of their learning how to take care of themselves.  Love it and am grateful you found a way to treat yourself so we all could benefit from that knowledge.

  • Gretchen

    12/15/2009 9:39:00 PM |

    ". . . he "reversed" coronary disease using a low-fat, no added oils, no meat, vegetarian diet"

    This is often stated, but in fact even Ornish never "reversed" CVD by diet alone. He did what he did with a complete program that included diet, stress reduction, I think smoking cessation, and immense peer support.

  • billye

    12/15/2009 10:37:19 PM |

    Hi DR. Davis,

    You certainly had a horrifying experience.  But, your end result was very positive.  You are lucky that you did not continue longer, because, your out come might have mirrored mine.  I too went to a Dean Ornish lecture and bought in to his program.  I didn't stop with that, I followed many other Doctors programs over a 30 year period.  They all failed. I too had diabetes type 2, hypertension, Lipid problems, and last but not least chronic kidney disease. Of course, I ballooned up to 240 pounds.

    What we had in common, as all of those with diseases of the metabolic syndrome do, is the fact that every program was locked into
    the so called "healthy eating" dogma first presented and proselytized by Dr. Ancel Keys and his low fat and high carbohydrate hypothesis.  It still pervades medicine,even today.

    It took me 50 years to finally get it.  My awakening came when I read Garry Taubes best seller, Good Calories Bad Calories.  I then followed on with Barry Groves Trick and Treat.  These two books educated me as to what a health supporting program could be, and started me on the way to recovery.  I also followed up with your fine blog along with some others.  

    I am happy to report that my diabetes type 2 is now cured, without medication, and always <100mg/dl.  While I know that CKD can not be cured, my nephrologist Dr. Tourgeman says "he is amazed that there is a huge improvement in my kidney function".  My latest VAP test HDL 63, TRIG 63, LDL 154, all without statens.  But, my Real LDL size are pattern A large bouyant and fluffy, which is a huge change from what they used to be 11 months ago.  I am taking SLO-NIACIN to reverse my high LDL.  My diabetes induced hypertension is a problem, but we will see, because I have about 40 pounds to lose yet.  I am now 185 pounds.  All of this because I listened to my doctor who told me to switch to high saturated fat and low carbohydrate.  What a miracle this is.  I also supplement with vitamin D3, 8000IU, and high dose fish oil.
    Billy E nephropal.com

  • Dr. William Davis

    12/15/2009 11:38:05 PM |

    Gretchen is correct: The Ornish program consists of more than a low-fat diet. However, the diet is a crucial component of the program, one that cannot be ignored given its potentially destructive effects in a large proportion of people, especially those who are non-ApoE4.

    Also, I would argue that Dr. Ornish NEVER showed reversal of coronary atherosclerosis. He showed reversal of ENDOTHELIAL DYSFUNCTION, which, by the methods used, provide the appearance of reversal of disease. They are two different things.

    As a non-cardiologist and using 20th century technology, perhaps we can forgive him this faux pas.

  • Gyan

    12/16/2009 5:12:55 AM |

    Dr Davis,
    What was your blood sugar prior to going on low-jfat diet?

  • Myron

    12/16/2009 8:22:06 AM |

    "Dr. it's not the red meat that's bad for you it's the green meat", one carnivore commented. "HaHa", he said.

    It's not the no fat it's the no bad fats that count.   Cancer is a cell membrane disease and a disease of the mitochondria cell membrane.   Feed the membrane, feed the mitochondria and Cancer can go away.
    Live longer feel better eat live leaf juices foods.    Sure you should get your vitamins from food--that's what I'm talking about--solar powered leaf juice.

  • Kurt

    12/16/2009 1:04:29 PM |

    I began on the Ornish diet after my heart scan almost a year ago. In four months, I went from 183 to 167 lbs, and my LDL cholesterol dropped 40%. Triglycerides and fasting blood sugar remained unchanged. My HDL did drop about 10%, to 50. I've since increased my intake of healthy fats, but my experience with the Ornish diet was very positive, especially as it showed me that I could control my cholesterol with diet, something my doctor didn't believe was possible.

    I do think genetics are involved, especially given the discrepancy between our results.

  • Adolfo David

    12/16/2009 2:06:27 PM |

    Dr Ornish is a public danger. Be sure.

    I dont know how a doctor who recommends so terrible diet is 'famous'.

    He has to use exercise and meditation in order to balance the disaster of his diet in his patients. So sad.

  • Dr. William Davis

    12/16/2009 3:17:33 PM |

    Kurt's different response might be explained by being an ApoE4 homo- or heterozygote. I am an ApoE3 homozygote. In addition, there are genetic variants in CETP, hepatic lipase, lipoprotein lipase, and others that can modify the response.

    My point here is that, with extreme unnatural limitation of fat, a substantial proportion of people (probably 70% or more) will experience adverse effects.

    Also, the initial response is determined to a large degree by the diet PRIOR to the diet change.


    12/16/2009 3:27:20 PM |

    I am diabetic- I was over weight and my sugars ran high. I followed the ADA diet (much like Ornish program)- low fat with moderate to high carbs- certainly high at the end of the day's tally I took all the meds and insulin prescribed – did cardio and some gym work.  Rarely snacked and always hungry. Gained 40 lbs in three months.  Discovered Atkins- then other low carb diets. Added high fat – lose 70 lbs  this last year.  Cholesterol fell to 130- Trigs are better then perfect. No more meds for diabetes. Blood pressure under control for the first time. I do NO cardio just strength training I am never hungry and avoid all grains and starches. Soy is a major never no-no.  I’m so glad I read Taubes  and Bernstein and did a little research on my own.  High fat and Low carb saved my life.

  • Diana

    12/16/2009 3:57:30 PM |

    It reminds me of a Vogue (a highly scientific publication, I know) article I read a few days ago. A woman went on a "cleansing" grapes-only diet promoted by yuppie-type Frenchwomen. She lost 1 lb each of water and muscle...and gained a pound of fat. Unfortunately the epiphany eluded her...

  • steve

    12/16/2009 3:59:14 PM |

    Ornish may be modifying his views: he now recommends daily consumption of fish oil!

  • White Zombie

    12/16/2009 8:56:24 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Its interesting you posted this. I am a Indian vegetarian before and now also, I used to run 7 days a week for nearly 15yrs. I was a pretty fast runner too keep 7-8min per mile competing in races until I got a heel spur and couldn't run at all but I got it fixed with homeopathic medicine but I digress. I used to be low fat, high carb, whole grain diet which lead a cholesterol profile of which I have records for 15yrs:

    HDL: ranges 50-58
    TriG: lowest was 130 to 275
    LDL: lowest was 130 to 250

    My most recent reading a 9months back:

    HDL: 58
    LDL: 158
    TriG: 250

    My latest reading 2 weeks old:

    HDL: 63
    LDL: 114
    TriG: 90

    What did I do ? For one I stopped doing any form of aerobics do only weight training 4 times a week for 15-20mins of intense weight training. I lost few pounds not much, lost a fat percentage points, I started eating a lots of salads, lots & lots of walnuts, pecans, fish oil, vitamin d supplement. My take I think the weight training improves insulin sensitivity along fish oil, walnuts and vit-d supplementation do the trick.

    My eye opener was Gary Taubes book the chapter on Cholesterol where he talks about Dr. John Gofman research on cholesterol and trigs. I am no longer afraid of fat, I consume a lot, no fat free milk, lots of walnuts, lots of olive oil and I don't see myself gaining any weight at all.

    I have to give thanks to Art Devany Evolutionary Fitness and your advice in this blog for my achievement.


  • FMJ

    12/16/2009 9:45:33 PM |

    Dr Davis:

    Thanks for this eye opener experience. What is your opinion of supplements like r-alpha lipoic acid, pycnogenol and acetyl L-carnitine for the treatment of glucose metabolization problems ?



  • Anonymous

    12/17/2009 2:10:07 AM |

    Is your 91 blood sugar level optimal?  Mine dropped from 95 or 96 down to 71 when I eliminated wheat.

  • Dr Matti Tolonen

    12/17/2009 2:52:53 PM |

    A new large, 90,000 people comprising European 10-yrs follow-up study EPIC (European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition)does not support the use of low-fat diets to prevent weight gain.

  • DrStrange

    12/18/2009 12:52:17 AM |

    from:  http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/6/1632

    "Mean total fat intake as a percentage of energy intake ranged between 31.5% and 36.5%"

    Sorry, that is not a low fat diet!  Low fat means approx 10% calories from fat.

  • Anonymous

    12/18/2009 2:06:11 AM |

    I'm confused.  I thought diabetes was a permanent condition that could not be cured or reversed?

  • DrStrange

    12/19/2009 1:32:29 AM |

    Type 1 diabetes is indeed permanent.  Type 2 is often completely reversible with appropriate diet and exercise.  If it is too far advanced in destroying the beta cells via high sugar and high insulin inflammation then the person may still need to supplement insulin but much lower amounts w/ above diet and exercise.

  • karl

    12/19/2009 1:51:31 AM |

    I had a similar experience to Dr. Davis - I followed AHA low fat diet - still didn't lose weight - so I cut the fat even further - and gained weight. I would go to bed hungry as it was better than feeling the hunger in the day.  

    As soon as I read Taubes book, I went low carb and quickly lost weight - switching to mostly non saturated fat - I lost even more weight - and it wasn't hard. I'm now at 14% body fat.

  • Anonymous

    12/19/2009 4:39:46 AM |

    ok already. i will give an animal/fish, low grain diet another try...... I need to count calories this time as the last time I eliminated wheat and went Paleo, I put on 10lbs

    more mechanisms please.  I find that helps me believe

  • Anonymous

    12/20/2009 6:12:10 AM |

    I have a friend who said he did Ornish religiously. The few times they had us over for dinner, they had what appeared to be pure Ornish type dishes. The man lost an enormous amount of weight (which was one of the strongest motivations for his wanting to do the  diet).

    However, lab tests confirmed that his cholesterol was moving in the wrong direction (triglycerides were in the 4 digits) and his doctor told him to start eating more meat and to cut back on the carbs!

    The quote from his doctor? "We tend to see this with people doing Ornish; your case is not unique."


  • Mac

    12/21/2009 11:58:45 PM |

    Can you devote some posts to the dietary modifications needed for an ApoE 4... I know that fat has more of an effect, but is it saturated and trans fat only, or all fat.  Should ApoE 4 still take fish oil?

  • clevelander

    12/28/2009 1:34:47 PM |

    I'm a 55 year old woman.  I reversed a bad lipid profile by researching and then creating my own diet based on what, how, and why I eat.

    My before lipids
    LDL < 100
    HDL < 50
    TRIG > 300
    Blood sugar fasting 107
    weight, close to 180 lbs (I'm 5'3")
    waist 40"

    I set a goal, to consume 1500 calories a day, allowing for 1800 2000 on high activity days(>1 hr bicycling or salsa dancing, for example), with the calorie distribution 30% fats, 50% carbs, 20% protein.  Trans fats were never an issue, I don't eat fast food or much processed food.

    I kept a rigorous food diary (note: nutritiondata.com is a great place to get info), and for the 1st 6 weeks eliminated every added sugar I could think of - no cookies, candy, soda, etc.  I developed a list of "go to" foods: oat bran, 1% cottage or ricotta cheese, a serving of legumes every day, low-sodium V8 juice, almonds, and all the green vegetables my heart desired.  I supplemented with 6 caps of fish oil (~ 6 gm), and 4 inulin fiber tablets aday, which had the advantage of tasting like giant Sweetarts.  I included 30 minutes minimum of exercise/high activity a day, and weights 15 minutes 4 times a week.

    After 6 weeks my doc was stunned:

    LDL < 93
    HDL 63
    TriG 98!
    Blood sugar 96
    waist: 37"

    Th thing is, i can stick to this diet because it didn't depart that far from my usual cooking.eating preferences.  I had always eaten the good stuff; trouble was I topped it with dessert all too often.

    I now allow myself a little added sugar in the form of 1 oz 70% dark chocolate (5-9 gm depending on brand), and an occaisional Stella D'Oro anisette toast - while their serving size is 3 pieces I have one with my coffee, all of 4 gms sugar!

    My carb choices are whole grains, mostly not wheat: oat bran, hulled (not pearled) barley, quinoa, as well as beans and yellow/orange vegs like sweet potato & squash.  Here's the thing: I keep a measureing cup on my counter and limit myself to 1/2 cup servings, maximum twice a day.

    Proteins: fish at least twice a week, ricotta and cottage cheese, eggs, whole and whites.  Limited meat and poultry, which is just a preference.  Bison when I can get it.  Legumes.

    Fruit: twice a day, mostly whole
    Vegs; plan my meals around them.  Unlimited of green leafy, tomatoes, cukes, mushrooms, summer squash, cruciferous/ I love a good salad, and always measure the dressing - 1 Tb max commercial (no low fats - yecch!), or 1 tsp olive oil plus lemon juice or vinegar.  Again, the measuring spoon is always within reach.

    My motto; have that, but halve that.  I enjoy small portions of high fat dairy, for instance.

    Snacking:  I put out 1/4 cup of nuts in a dish, along with my daily chocolate or a bit of dried fruit. That is what I nibble on.

    I am headed to my goal of keeping the lipids/blood sugar good, 140 lbs, < 35" waist.

    Hope this is helpful.

  • Anonymous

    12/28/2009 3:23:35 PM |

    Well, not to knock the approach advocated here, but  I've had a very different experience on Ornish.  I've been following the original Ornish recommendations which are closer to what Dr. Esselstyn promotes as a result of his 20 year study.  I lost 50 pounds effortlessly, lowered total TC from 160 to 90, and TG steady at 80 and have stayed there for over three years.  

    Perhaps the difference is in the details.  I see a lot of people here saying they followed Ornish and ate low fat cookies, low fat dairy and such, but Esselstyn shows that that you really need to cut out all processed foods, all animal products, and watch those small amounts of oil.  It's a very different diet I suspect than many of you tried.  Esselstyn did show reversal of disease, as well as mortality, not just endothylium function, by the way.  I haven't seen published comparable results from Dr. Davis' regime here.

    If Ornish was such a horrible diet, you'd see terrible disease rates in Okinawa, other parts of Asia, or in many of the other societies, Seventh day adventists for that matter, around the world where they essentially eat the same diet.  But, of course you don't.  It's very easy to slam a diet that you're not really following, and anyone who says they were following the ADA diet and thinks it's the same as the original Ornish diet clearly doesn't know what the Ornish diet is.  ADA is 30% fat, Ornish is 10% fat, for starters, and as I mentioned, if you really want to do it right, Esselstyn has the details down.

    I do wonder about the heavy use of the calcium score here when you have recent studies questioning the value of these scores such as this:


    Coronary calcification progression doubted as a CV diagnostic
    DECEMBER 17, 2009 | Reed Miller
    Editor's note: The headline for this story has been revised to more accurately reflect study findings.
    Royal Oak, MI - Coronary artery calcification (CAC) progression is not a suitable end point for trials of cardiovascular-disease therapies, and the usefulness of tracking CAC progression over time is still in doubt, according to researchers who analyzed previous randomized trials that tracked CAC for at least a year [1].

  • Anonymous

    12/30/2009 5:15:48 PM |

    I got fat by eating low-fat/high-carb for years starting in my teens into my early 30's.  Weight loss programs like Weight Watcher's only made me more obese and made me clinically sicker (low HDL and very high triglycerides).  

    Following Atkins way of eating (now moving to PaNu) has completely turned everything around for me.  I have lost over 100lbs and kept it off and my labratory results are, in my doctor's words, "enviable."  My diet is < 10% carbs and > 60% healthy fat (mostly saturated).  I started a vitD and Omega-3 regiment as well and I will get lab results from that in about 2 weeks.

    The lab results are great, but the feeling of complete control over my eating is even better.  When I an hungry it is because my stomach is empty, and the feeling can be sustained until I can grab something to eat.  When I was low-fat/high-carb, I was constantly hungry and food-obsessed and the only way I could lose any weight was from sheer deprivation which is unsustainable.

  • DrStrange

    1/1/2010 1:19:12 AM |

    Just eating "low fat/high carb" can easily be a terrible diet.  CocaCola and Entenmann's fat free pasteries would qualify here.  What McDougall, Ornish, etc are recommending is low fat/high carb consisting ONLY of minimally processed, whole foods, from plants.  That means the green "plants" not the factories "plants". AND it is crucial for the diet to work that you aren't sneaking in little bits here and there of junk food and highly processed foods that claim to be low fat but have a lot of fat hidden by labeling claims.

    If you only eat from the produce section, whole/intact grains, whole legumes, and moderate fruit, maybe an ounce of flax or walnuts per day the diet will work wonders!

  • B.K.

    1/1/2010 5:20:56 PM |

    I tried reducing fats as well. Rice, baked vegetables, potatoes, salads with fat-free dressing, you name it. At 5'8" tall, I got up to 210 lbs. and a 38" waist. Fat was the "bad guy". Diet soda, diet foods, water, walking...then the numb fingers, blurry vision, and even peeing my pants hit me because I could not get out of the bathroom. The Dr. said diabetes; it took 2 weeks to get in to him. In the meantime, my boss was on Atkins and dropping weight and feeling GOOD. In just 2 weeks, when I was tested, my urine was still "a disaster area" but BG after fasting and walking several blocks in was 75. Now it is usually always below 100. I dropped about 60 lbs. in less than 6 months! My last A1C was 5.4. I do not take meds of any kind. I have a 'safe list' of carbs to eat, all of them low GI and avoid corn syrup, flour, and sugar. I eat a LOT of nice, red, fat meat. Pretty much, if it's a "dead animal", I'll eat it. If it's green or colorful, I eat it. Nothing "white" or high GI. That was 3.5 years ago. I do not have a need for statins, insulin, nothing. Grandpa is fat-free, high carb, etc. - oats, rice, you name it. He's not obese, but his cholesterol is over the moon and I can't get him to get a BS test.

  • Ned Kock

    1/2/2010 3:24:43 PM |

    My experience was very similar in terms of the numbers, although I followed a slightly different diet modification path:

    Before: LDL: 156, HDL: 38, triglycerides: 188.

    After: LDL: 123, HDL: 66, triglycerides: 46.

    I included more details on the post below, if you are interested:


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  • Term Paper

    2/18/2010 7:08:16 AM |

    This is often stated, but in fact even Ornish never "reversed" CVD by diet alone. He did what he did with a complete program that included diet, stress reduction, I think smoking cessation, and immense peer support.

  • jea

    5/24/2010 6:38:48 PM |

    I have lost 51 pounds on the Ornish low fat diet, avoiding most sweets, and exercising 6 days a week, that included weights and cardio.

    Slamming Ornish is easy but it seems some do because the diet fails because it is not followed properly.

    Eating sugars such as cookies and carbs such as white flour will make you gain weight. I only eat whole grains and measure my portion.

    Its also interesting that Ornish does say that blood levels such as HDL will increase on a high fat diet because your body needs more protection.

    But the diet is not a cure all. As he has pointed out, even people with lower cholesterol can die if they dont change their attitude and habits.

  • Max

    6/3/2010 6:01:53 AM |

    i eat a lot & never exercise  and i am 22 yrs, no disease has dared to touch me..

  • DrStrange

    6/6/2010 5:51:12 PM |

    Max   At  22 no disease has had time to develop.  It is quite natural to have a fairly distorted sense of time and lack of awareness of your own mortality.  Most everyone can do as you have been doing and feel fine and not "see" damage.  Yet. But continue as you are and it is almost guaranteed you will end up w/ either diabetes, some form of cardiovascular disease, or both.  By the time you are in your 40's you will be a fat, old man, panting to walk up a flight of stairs, with high blood pressure, high blood sugar, and dyslipidemia.  You can pretty much take that to the bank!

  • Term papers

    6/8/2010 2:00:27 PM |

    Posts like this will teach me to take a long weekend offline, and off of the newsreader.

  • error fix

    8/22/2010 10:44:51 PM |

    Do you think that if Dean Ornish would apply a diet that is high in fat and low in CHO - in addition to his stress management program and exercise and so on - it would work to heart desease? b

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